Recently Adam Backus sat down with Mark Holley of Black Foxxes to discuss their new album, The Haar. The record comes out on Friday and is the bands most conceptually realized work to date.
Adam: You’ve been playing songs from the Haar and you’ve had this record recorded for years. How do you continue to connect to these songs during this cycle, even as you continue to write and record for future records at the same time?
Mark: Yeah, This is a really good question. To be honest it kind of happens with every record; it’s just with this record it’s even more amplified just because the time has been so much longer. I think the connection we have with these songs now in a live sense is totally different. The songs have transformed entirely from the record to be a totally different thing, so when we’re playing these songs live you’ve got to remember for the most part no one has heard these songs yet really apart from us doing The Haar in full one London show. Apart from that, no one has heard these songs, but bits here and there. It’s new for everyone else, but yeah since we recorded it like over a year ago they’re just so different now. It’s funny we talk about it as a band because there’s really a fine line and there’s a sweet spot of when to record a song. A lot of bands will practice and rehearse a song to death so it’s perfect and then they record it. A lot of bands will record a song too early and it hasn’t formed into what it should be. I’m not saying that we’ve done it right on this record, but it feels for certain songs we for sure hit that sweet spot where there was still a lot of naivety and anxiety in the performance of the song that gave us some real lovely energy to just wanting to explore it and perform and put everything into it. If we recorded the songs now they’d sound so so different on the record, but they’d also be so much more rehearsed and we’d lose that spark so the sweet spot is hard to find man, it really is.
Adam: That’s a good answer, and I would imagine that they’re always gaining new life in a live setting. While we’re on the topic of playing the new music live is there a certain song you like to play live or that has gotten the best reception from fans?
Mark: It’s probably still too early to answer that question, at the end of this tour I’d for sure be able to answer it. The one that I’m really excited about, just so you know we recorded a live version of The Haar as well last year. We recorded a full one day—everything was recorded in a day with string players and everything—live version of The Haar and Clean Mind (6 Months) was so much fun. That song now is one of those ones where maybe we recorded it a little early because we had no idea it was going to turn into what it’s turned into. I like both versions if I’m honest. It’s quite nice hearing the restraint of the recorded version compared to if you heard the Haar live you’d be like “whoa this is totally different”. I think that’s going to be fun for fans because it’s wild and you just talked about jazz at the start of the interview and it’s very jazzy and I lose myself with the vocals and really just go out. That’s for sure one I think a lot of the fans will enjoy.
Adam: It’s funny that you mention restraint, because in my review I mention that there’s a lot of restraint on the album and having heard some of the songs live on YouTube you can hear that they explode live.
Mark: The restraint for the most part was really purposeful. During that phase of my writing I was obsessed with the idea of sonically these songs just simmering and actually not doing too much and you just get lost. There’s little additions of instrumentation here and there and you can just get lost in this repetitive loop of an outro. Like the “Turn Out The Lights” outro, it’s about building in a way that’s not just let’s get louder. I think it takes a while to connect to something like that but the simmering reserved nature of the album is something that we were really trying to get across. It won’t be for everyone, and I know that a lot of people will really be itching for that explosion, but I think that people that are committed enough to giving it a chance will really get what we were trying to do.
Adam: There’s a sense on the record that it’s not predictable. I think the parts that I expected it to explode it didn’t, and the parts where it did explode I was not expecting it, so I think that’s a fun aspect of it. I actually have a question related to you saying “the record won’t be for everyone” — has that always been your mindset going into an album, that you’re not going to make an album that’s for everyone, or do you think that being an independent band gives you more freedom to make the music you want to make? If people like it great, and if they don’t like it maybe they’ll like the next one.
Mark: I think the latter, I think that’s always been my mentality though. Obviously when you’re part of a major record label it’s not like they tell you, or they certainly never told our band what to write or anything. It’s a lot easier to get sucked into that world of if these short length songs will get Spotify playlists, and we need that to get these tours. These things sort of get into your self-conscious and you find yourself writing I guess more commercially accessible music. The mentality has been there from the start to be honest. We’ve always just been a band that we just want to get into a room and make something that’s organic to us as possible and we’ve never cared really if other people love it or hate it. Yeah, I don’t really know how to properly answer this question but it’s like my favorite bands — I don’t care if they’re trying to cater for me, I want them to cater to them. I want them to love the music they’re making and if it doesn’t connect with me cool that’s irrelevant then it’s not for me and there will be something that is. So yeah, it could be a case of a lot of people not connecting to this one but they might with the next, but we don’t really think about that stuff, you know?
Adam: Yeah, and that’s good. I think when you look at a lot of bands that have longevity they go in different directions, because I think if you play the same record over and over again, you might cater to some fans with fan service but internally there’s not as much passion making the same record over and over again.
Mark: Yeah, exactly. I think it’s becoming a little bit, I hate using the word cool but those bands that have these sort of storied careers and they have some substance behind them and they’ve got like ten records. It’s becoming a lot cooler to find those bands. Even if they’ve got small followings you notice now these bands just kind of exploding from records that they made in the 90’s and stuff but they just kept going and going. It’s because along the way they’ve made some fucking amazing art really, so I think there’s a real scene for it. I think that shit like AI is only going to benefit art that we’re making and other musicians like myself are making because you cannot replicate that. So there’s always going to be this like outcry for the music like this for people that really really really love it and want to get hooked into something. I think over time maybe this will be a good thing for these sorts of bands, I don’t know.
Adam: So tell me a little bit about the transition from Sam Irvine becoming a touring member into becoming a permanent member of the band.
Mark: I don’t know where to start with Sam, because he’s so brilliant, he’s just absolutely amazing. He’s such a lovely human and amazing presence in the band. It feels weird to think that this has even been a band before him really. We were just recording the record and we were starting to experiment and get a bit weird like you can hear in some of the songs and Finn said he’s got a guy he does like a jazz band with who’s just phenomenal and he said he’s just got really great tastes which was the big thing for us. So yeah we just sent him a couple tracks, he sent back the “Clean Mind” stuff. I can’t remember if “Darker Than Light” was actually my recording. I’d have to listen back because originally on the demos I literally just found a shitty plug in on Logic when I did the sax line and it sounded really cool. I can’t remember if that on the record, Dani Castelar, our producer, just said keep that or we use Sam. I’ll have to find out, I’ll let you know but regardless anyway we did that and obviously at the end of “Clean Mind” it sounds amazing and he sent us all these different parts and we ended up using most of them and it was just this chaotic section. Then we got him involved in some headline shows and we wanted him involved in the live set to just add to it but he wasn’t full-time at that point. As soon as we played a show with him, man, as soon as he turned up to the practice space it was like holy fuck everything just made sense with all of us. The energy in the room was just unbelievable. All good art is being confident enough and comfortable enough around people to try things, right? To have people that really get what you’re doing before you do it and you can just bounce off each other and you just get into this flow state. With Sam every practice we’re just writing the most insane stuff. It’s a game changer and a part of me is like “fuck imagine if he was involved for this record” but actually I think this record does and says exactly what it needs to say and it’s just going to be exciting for the next record you know? I don’t think it takes away from it at all.
Adam: Speaking of “Darker Than Light” some of my favorite lyrics on the album are from that song (“Kiss me where it’s tender, you’ll leave a mark on me forever”) and “From The Image Of Perfection” (“driving out to a place where leaves don’t fall”) which are the two last songs on the album. Are there any specific lyrics that stand out to you where after you wrote them you were really proud of them, whether it’s an entire song, or just a specific line.
Mark: Thank you very much for that. “In The Image” is a really special one for me for sure. I think I really got a nice balance of flow with those spoken word vocals but also some real vivid imagery. Also, speaking and singing about a subject that’s really difficult to sing about which is our own imperfections, you know our own fucking mistakes that we make, traits that we don’t like about ourselves. I would say that that song for sure is one of my favorites. There are a few lines in “Where Have You Been” — I really like the verse, “The bluebells in Spring, watch as they recoil and fall into dirt” — I think that’s a really nice phrase. I don’t think there’s anything I hate yet which is good, I’m sure there will be. For now the lyrical content is something I’m most stoked and excited to share to people for this record.
Adam: While we’re on the topic of lyrics, I notice themes on the record. There are themes of being alone, imperfections, addictions, pleading and speaking to God, and also death. When you hear those lyrics does it take you back to the place where you wrote them?
Mark: It’s a brilliant question because I’m actually getting goosebumps just thinking about it because I can actually vividly picture exactly where I was for every song. My memory is pretty shit actually because I’ve been on really hard drugs for my chronic illness for so long and it fucks my memory. Weirdly (laughs) with you saying that I can actually remember the exact desk, the exact pen I picked up to write and finish off “In The Image Of Imperfection” when I was in Iceland in a hotel. I remember what I had for dinner that evening, I remember everything. It’s like I’m there right now in the room. I remember it for all the songs. I remember for “Turn Out The Lights” deciding that when I instantly came up for the hook for the song it was obviously a song about death and so I really leaned on that. I remember being in lockdown during covid with my ex-girlfriend when I wrote that. Yeah, it’s weird man, I really do vividly remember every song, yeah. It’s pretty powerful actually, yeah.
Adam: Now when we mention those common themes, there seems to be themes across the album with those aspects. Do you consider this a concept album, or do you think you were in a consistent headspace when you wrote the album?
Mark: I’ve never liked the idea of concept albums but I have to say with this album when I was writing this in terms of the mood and how we wanted it to sound was decided when I was living on the Isle of Mull, which is an island off of Scotland. It’s where “Carsaig” was written, the Carsaig Estate. I guess in that respect it is somewhat of a concept album because it was very early on and I was like “this has to be recorded in this same setting.” It has to be just like windy, waves, really rugged seas, Scottish scenery. Whilst like the lyrical content might be quite different and varying in themes, the actual record and the sonics and sound of the record I guess does have a concept, yeah.
Adam: You’ve mentioned before there are studio easter eggs on the album, for example being able to hear a glass of wine sliding across the piano at the end of a song. I noticed that there’s a lot of “room sounds” on the album like I’m right there in the room with you. Was that the vision you had going into recording the album, or was it something that was discovered in the studio?
Mark: We had the idea early on that playfulness was really important and that’s something now we’re taking to a whole new level which is going to be funny for the future stuff. This is where we were sort of exploring with it and Dani Castelar, who recorded it and was the producer, he was so brilliant with this stuff because he knew when stuff had to be focused but also, for example, the outro of “Bitcrusher” which if we’re talking about simmering and reserved, that whole outro is so reserved. I think the inspiration for that outro and actually probably a couple of songs was a lot of Nick Cave’s record Push The Sky Away. So much of the sonics of that Nick Cave record just simmers and there are little pockets of weirdness. On the outro to “Bitcrusher” we heard, basically every piano take is at the end of the take. I would always have wine when I was doing takes in the evening. You can hear me take the glass off the piano and it was really exaggerated on “Bitcrusher” at the end. I remember Dani saying “that sounds great, and I think the whole outro should just be you guys in a room playing with instruments and toys you pick up from a chest like you’re a kid, like you’re six and you open the chest and there’s just weird things. Not necessarily a guitar instrument, but like a block or something to hit.” So that whole outro will sound different on different media but if you really focus in listening there’s all sorts of shit going on in the room. It’s just all of us collectively in the room just playing with shit, clapping, pushing each other, and just a lot of playfulness I think that takes you to this really focused sound going on and then, like you said, all of a sudden you’re in a room but you don’t really know why.
Adam: Another callout for that would be in “Where Have You Been” you can hear your fingers sliding up and down the fretboard on the guitar which I think just adds a vulnerability to the song as well.
Mark: I think with “Where Have You Been” as well, talking about that room sound, we were really really intent that when it’s big and loud instead of what we’ve done before—the obvious big loud sections to just make the guitars so focused and loud—here we wanted it to just be the room mics. So on the big section in “Where Have You Been” it’s so gnarly and distorted, but it’s just all the room mics in the room just getting pumped up, so it doesn’t have this focused sound on it all where you’d expect it to have the focused sound.
Adam: You mentioned Nick Cave, were there any other big influences on this album specifically?
Mark: I try to not listen to too much in the writing process just because I don’t want to take on too much of an influence from what I’m listening to. I think with the simmering stuff Ben Howard was a big one. A lot of Ben Howard’s stuff—a lot of people don’t like it—but I really connect with it and it’s super simmering. Just from an instrumentation standpoint that was a big inspiration for us. There’s a spoken word artist we’re covering on tour, Chili Gonzales, and I found his music incredibly inspiring. It’s mainly just him and piano, and spoken word. He comes out with very blunt lyrics, and listening to him made me realize and gave me a lot of confidence to just really sing what I really wanted to sing, or say. Also, Faye Webster. She is the fucking queen of never-ending outros and was a big inspiration for the vibe of the record.
Adam: You said the response to your Kickstarter exceeded your expectations, which is fantastic. Was there ever a moment before you announced it where you felt like this was a make or break moment for the band?
Mark: Yeah, but I feel like every day I feel like is a make or break moment for the band with good news, bad news, things aren’t going well, manager leaves, you get a new manager, you get a record label, you don’t get a record label. So I’m kind of long in the tooth in this game now, so I’m kind of used to all the highs and lows. I don’t really know what we would’ve done if it would’ve failed but we do always find a way. The guys are so fantastic with my vision because I’m just nonstop a bit. I’m coming up with new ideas all the time for the band and it must be exhausting for them. They’re so on board with it, we would’ve found a way but it did kind of blow our minds a bit for a band of our level. We were really not expecting anything near that if I’m honest. Probably a bit of an exclusive, I have talked about it a bit before but I don’t think it’s published anywhere. When we recorded the album the whole idea was that we were going to get funding from Creative Scotland. They do these big grants for bands and stuff, and we’d never had funding from anything before. We were told by someone there that we weren’t like a lock in to get it but a very, very strong chance that we would get it because we ticked a lot of the boxes they wanted so we were like “fuck it, let’s just record. Let’s just do it and I’m sure we’ll get it across the line” Whilst we were there we got the news that we didn’t get the funding and it was like oh shit we’re in this very good studio with this insane producer and now this could be a lot of debt for us. It was in that moment we were like what are we going to do, but one of my closest friends does a lot of Kickstarters for his comic books and he suggested he really thought it could be a good idea to connect to the fanbase and it was. It was probably the best thing that the band has ever done.
Adam: While we’re on the topic of the future, how long do you think that The Haar cycle will last if it was up to you?
Mark: I think best case scenario, this record comes out in March. I think a year from this release date we release a live version of The Haar. It would be amazing if we could self-release that one on our own record label. The year after that, album five. Basically two years from March, to have the next album. So I’d say The Haar would be 1-2 years as far as a campaign I guess. I’m trying to somehow arrange album 5 to be recorded in the Yukon this summer in a house on this property that overlooks the lake basically where I’ve been staying the past couple of months.
Adam: What would the perfect version of this band look like in 5 years if we were talking again?
Mark: I think in so many ways, we’re nearly there. I think to just be a bit more self-sufficient, a bit more sustainable. If we could just get a big support tour like a Placebo or a Muse it would tip our band over the edge to just being a full-time thing for us. I mean, it is already but it would just be life-changing. You’re tapping into a market you just can’t get into any other way. It would be nice to have 2-3 more records under our belt from The Haar, and just to be in a place where it’s more sustainable to be doing it. Our own record label would be amazing, that’s something that I think for a band at our level makes a lot of sense. It’s a big risk and it’s obviously quite daunting, but to be able to keep the rights to our music is really important to us now. To be with the guys and to be having as much fun as we are when we’re all together now in 5 years’ time because that’s what it’s all about. We have so much fun when we’re together, we really, really do however difficult it is at times.
The Scope of 